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Originator:	shekerra	Printable Version
Title:	Regarding Atheists

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History

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/16 15:47:09


From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/16 18:49:32


From: coral47	On: 2007/10/16 21:30:37
>> Let the adults handle them I find a loaded shotgun keeps them away also. Besides, I don't have a problem with God, I have a problem with religions.

From: Pino Carafa	On: 2007/10/17 01:20:00
LOL

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/17 15:14:29
I love God, it is his fan club I dislike.

From: coral47	On: 2007/10/17 21:24:31
>> it is his fan club I dislike. I haven't heard that one before. I like it. : )

From: Baldrick	On: 2007/10/18 01:39:41
Amusing! :)

From: ElijahBailey	On: 2007/10/18 07:13:33
G'day I overheard a conversation between my ex-wife, when she was my pre-ex-wife, and her neighbour friend discussing ghosts. I heard the friend saying, "... you know when you are sitting in the house doing something and you see a fleeting shadow out of the corner of your eye? Well, THAT's a ghost..." And my wife.. ex-wife... pre-ex-wife... oh you know... she had just nodded her head agreeably as though she had discovered another jigsaw piece to the universe. I said, "If you had a house full of cats, pretty much any of us would know that they were cats. You might have different breeds of cats but we know that even though this one is a Siamese, that one is a Burmese and the other one is an Egyptian Mau, despite some anatomical differences, they all have "cat" characteristics that make them undeniably "cat". If I walked into your house with a Chihuahua and tried to pass it off as a cat, despite its similarities - size, shape, legs, tail, head, eyes, ears etc - you would laugh in my face. Not just that this animal is missing some definite cat characteristics, but also has definite non-cat characteristics of its own. We know it is a dog. So, if we can classify animals so neatly and have demonstrably different breeds of cat and still call them cats to distinguish them from similar but clearly non-cat animals like the Chihuahua, what is it that gives you the expertise in classification of supernatural entities to say that this particular fleeting shadow that you caught out of the corner of your eye was a ghost? What other "ghost" characteristics did this particular fleeting shadow possess that are missing from fleeting shadows caused by any number of natural eventsthat that made this one unarguably a ghost? The gullibility of my ex to believe anything she was told as long as it was more exciting than the real world just staggered me...

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/18 09:10:24
I also dislike the word God. The word has so many different connotations, it practically means something different to everyone. I do believe there is some force in the universe that is more powerful than humans. What this force is or what it does exactly I am not sure. To think that humans are the top of the evolutuionary food chain in the entire unverse (or multitude of universes) is pretty damn arrogant not to mention gullible. Same thing with life on other planets. To think that life so incredibly rare that it only formed on this one little speck of a rock circling an average sized star in a midsize galaxy is arrogant and gullible as hell. Whether or not they have vistied us, I have no idea for certain that they have or have not. What I do know is that they most likely haven't visited Bubba, Cleetus and Darlene in their trailer park. Which brings me to pyschic or psionic powers. I am sure they exist, I will not say anything more than if someone demonstrated said powers, they would most likely be quarentined, poked, prodded and examined to an inch of their life and sanity by whichever government or military establishment found them first. Only to be released after several months, posssibly years, of near torture and then thrown back out into society to live as a homeless person and fight to get some sembelence of a life back. One thing I am sure of is that while these powers exist the people that have them definately would not try to sell them to you on TV at 3 am for $3.99 a minute.

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/18 09:44:06
EB - nice to see you again - I always love reading your posts! >I do believe there is some force in the universe that is more powerful than humans. I always term that my higher power! I've had plenty of strange things happen that I term unexplainable.* One time I was at Gold Beach in late May, Oregon for the day (enjoying some alone time) and decided to take a different route back home. What I decided upon (according to my map) was a route through Agness, Oregon which would slide me into the back of Merlin, OR which was close to home... I ended up on Bear Camp Road - not a good place to be in late May and was stuck near a sheet of ice, impassable snow, and when I tried to turn around my car slid and was balancing precariously on a cliff. I remember my legs shaking like jello, I was in shorts and a halter, I could not move aside from trying to calm jello legs, and all I could do was look at that cliff and I honestly thought I was going to roll over it and die. I don't know how long I sat there but I was praying to a higher power - shortly two 4 wheel drive vehicles with two couples showed up. They had everything that was needed to get me off the edge of that cliff, and one of the wives even offered me warm herbal tea... I asked for their names and addresses so that I could sent them a thank you card. Then I followed them down back toward Agness and as I was rounding a bend in the road their headlights disappeared. I sped up thinking that maybe they had increased their speed. I never found another set of headlights all the way back to Gold Beach. The next week I bought thank you gifts and a card and both gifts were later returned by the post as undeliverable. That sent goosebumps up and down my spine. Not only had their vehicles disappeared into thin air after rounding the bend but the addresses they gave me were not real.

From: Baldrick	On: 2007/10/19 01:01:13
I hope aliens exist; I've heard their anal probes are cool

From: Hooligan	On: 2007/10/19 05:06:31
what annoys me is people who don't believe in ghosts but are happy to celebrate hallowe'en without thinking of its true meaning.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/19 06:58:11
With ghosts, god, aliens, etc. people walk around with stupid toys unable to detect them in a few hours and proclaim there are none. It is about like looking for a wireless signal with a spoon.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/19 07:07:19
Stone, I look forward to your demonstration that any of these things exist. I am open to any proof you present. What do you have? People have discovered an awful lot that DOES exist that no-one knew existed before. Now you claim that gods and ghosts exist but do you have data on them? Do you have a database of properties of gods or ghosts that have been taken from observations of actual gods and ghosts so that we can compare what you show me to what is known and documented about them? I would be interested in your collected facts.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/19 07:15:32
It is observations. I rarely carry around EM detectors and video cameras and they hate posing. Maybe you can wander around with a project box full of blinky lights, or a spoon, and declare the without a shadow of a doubt they don't exist.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/19 07:29:54
I didn't say they don't exist. You are suggesting that they do. All I am asking is that you show me a god or a ghost or give me documented details on the recorded and tested properties of gods and ghosts so that if I happen to see something that MIGHT be one, then I can compare the properties I observe or measure or however I might detect them, with the information you furnish in order to verify that it is in fact an example of a similar type. I suggest that no such data exists. That doesn't prove the entites don't exist but just one example of a god or a ghost together with known properties of gods or ghosts would go a long way toward supporting your claim that they do.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/19 07:36:58
You missed my point that I, nor anyone else, can documant jack because there doesn't exist equipment to document them yet. Where's that wireless detector spoon again?

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/19 07:39:02
Baldrick, what were you saying?

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/19 07:52:53
That's what I thought Stone, you simply WANT them to exist... if the equipment doesn't exist, how were they detected in the first place? Our eyes? We can detect light in a greater range of the EM spectrum than our eyes can penetrate. Our ears? We can detect a far greater range of sound waves than our ears can. By what meagre sense belonging to human beings do we detect ghosts beyond any shadow of a doubt and yet continue to fail to confirm with the far greater sensitivity and range of technological aids?

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/19 08:32:14


From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/19 09:12:45
You're assuming that we kow everything that our senses can detect and know everything there is to know already. That is a very arrogant and naive approach to life. If you can't believe in something unless you see a document about it, I feel very sorry for you.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/19 09:14:03
Atheism is a religion in itself. By definition it is not, but in practice it is.

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/19 09:19:56


From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/19 09:51:02
.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/19 16:44:47
Stone, I am not going to defend what I said or didn't say against someone who makes it up on the fly. There is nothing in what I said that suggests that I think we know everything. But if it makes you happy, then you can use your lack of knowledge to back up your lack of supporting data.

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/19 17:45:11


From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/19 20:57:59
About making it up on the fly, what the fuck do you know about me or any damn thing. Typical, you make a regular discussion into a personal attack. Why don't you just go to TOS, they seem to like that sort of crap. I myself came her to get away from that sort of fucking bullshit. You are just the sort of dick wad troll that every other site has loads of, I guess carobit isn't immune.

From: coral47	On: 2007/10/19 21:28:20
Damn!! That's one hot red-head. Thank you for posting that one. <drool pant drool>>

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/19 21:47:05
Well Stone, its seems I can't get away from wankers like you that believe in the supernatural. Carobit isn't immune from that either...

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 03:35:15
You are one of those "If I can't see it, feel it, smell it, taste it, or hear it, it doesn't exist, never has and never will" types. Lemme guess, you think anyone that even entertains the idea of anything remotely outside the realm of your 5 senses is some sort of moron freak. You think you are being scientific, but in reality you are being close minded and are the type that held science back all these millenia. Good thing everyone isn't like you or we'd be living on one continent in one huge city afraid to fall off the edge of the Earth. "Can't see, feel, smell, taste or hear anything beyond my immediate reality so it must not exist and don't you dare make me even entertain the idea of it". Before you go off on me about religious nuts that have held back science, I know that had technology from conquered societies not been destroyed over the millenia as being evil or the work of the devils or some such crap, we'd be a lot farther along than we are now.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 03:46:58


From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 03:54:14


From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/20 04:01:06
"...You are one of those "If I can't see it, feel it, smell it, taste it, or hear it, it doesn't exist, never has and never will" types..." You know nothing at all about me Stone. I am not one of "those" types at all. I simply asked you to show me the properties of ghosts so that I can compare my observations with yours to see if my observation (if I ever have one) matches yours. I didn't say they don't exist, I just asked you to show me one. "...Lemme guess, you think anyone that even entertains the idea of anything remotely outside the realm of your 5 senses is some sort of moron freak..." I entertain those thoughts all the time Stone. And I don't think I am a moron freak. There is a lot that we can't sense with what we are born with. But according to you and others, you sense ghosts and gods with your own unaided senses. Again, I am asking you to show me one. "...in reality you are being close minded and are the type that held science back all these millenia..." So if you believe in it, then it must be true, regardless of your lack of supporting evidence for it? AGAIN, I am asking you to show me one. "...had technology from conquered societies not been destroyed over the millenia as being evil or the work of the devils or some such crap, we'd be a lot farther along than we are now..." What the hell has that got to do with me??? I have not said either way whether I believe in the existence of gods or ghosts. You said that I am saying that and I am not. All I am asking you to do is to show me one that YOU have seen. You are getting all flustered over your inability to answer the question and are flying off on all sorts of tangents about my personality. Once more and for the last fucking time, show me a god or a ghost. Show me your collected database of god and/or ghost facts so I know that if I see one, I can compare it to your "known facts" to see if I am witnessing a similar entity. What was wrong with that?

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 04:05:56
I have no collected database. Since you want to compare yours to mine, show me yours then. How would one go about showing another an experience from childhood or a feeling. I may not have proof that I felt or saw something, but I am betting you don't have proof these thing don't exist either. This is easily one of the stupidest arguements I have been involved in a long time.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 04:12:36
As for ghosts, I lived in a old house when I was a young child. On several occasions I saw someone late at night, I called him fuzzy man, because he was kinda fuzzy looking like when you didn't have the TV tuned quite right. He was always rushin into the bathroom that was between my room and my sisters. One time I went to the bathroom and while washing my hands the water turned all the way on, the shower turned on, and the doors locked (I am a little fuzzy on that point because while I never locked both doors before I can't say with certainty that I didn't), I couldn't turn the water off. I got scared and my brother and father kicked in the doors from both sides. For a few seconds they couldn't turn the water off. The odd feeling that came with the water turning on passed and the water was easily shut off. As for God. I have nothing but a feeling that something is there. I cna't prove it or disprove nor do I want to.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 04:16:05
Wierd, I still get chills thinking about that experience in the bathroom at that house.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/20 04:17:14
"...I have no collected database..." Funny about that, I didn't think you did. Obviously I don't have one either. So, if a ghost happens to turn up, I will start a database and send it to you. I would not put children down for what they remember, but how they interpret what they experience has to be done on perhaps shaky assumptions. You know there are no monsters under the bed but that does little to convince them. Have you ever seen a monster under the bed or in the closet? They still believe they are there. "...I may not have proof that I felt or saw something..." I know that, you just have a belief system that makes it possible for you to imagine that you saw or felt whatever you want it to be. "...but I am betting you don't have proof these thing don't exist either..." That's pretty silly Stone. I never claimed to be able to prove ANYTHING doesn't exist. Make up anything you like, a 7-headed dog with 19 legs that speaks 50 versions of Latin. Does that make it exist? Of course it doesn't but can I prove it doesn't exist? Of course I can't but the point is, if you showed me such an animal, it would go a long way toward supporting your claim that they exist. "...This is easily one of the stupidest arguements I have been involved in a long time..." You are the one making it stupid Stone. Why not simply admit that you don't have any evidence for gods or ghosts and can't get any. Believe in their existence all you like but don't put shit on me just because I ask you to explain WHY you believe.

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/20 04:18:07
Ohh and I couldn't get he door unloacked even though the handles had been replaced not too long before that. They were replaced again shortly after that with handles that didn't lock.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/20 04:30:11
I enjoy such stories too Stone. I don't believe it is what you think it is but you do and that colors your story all by itself. "...I have nothing but a feeling that something is there..." You can create that feeling any time Stone. You first believe it is there, THEN you can feel it. It doesn't make it there but you can always feel that it is... "...I cna't prove it or disprove nor do I want to..." No-one can disprove the existence of anything Stone, so that only leaves the burden of proof with you. And you said it yourself, you dont WANT to disprove it...

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/20 05:27:22


From: muso	On: 2007/10/22 06:08:46
Hi EB, hope you are well. EB > its seems I can't get away from wankers [...] > that believe in the supernatural. Perhaps you take it a little too personally sometimes; something I'm not immune to myself...

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/22 07:18:30
Hi Muso, doing great, hope all is well with you If I said something against a particular country as a whole and you were a native of that country, I am sure you would read my comments as being directed at you personally. I may not consider myself atheist as atheists assert that there is no god which is something that I know cannot be proven or even stated by anyone with an ounce of intelligence. I have to consider myself a member of a larger group that happens to contain atheists as a subset, that generally doesn't feel the need to believe in a so-called higher being. I have no problem with a universe that doesn't contain a deity. The universe, nature if you will, is a wonderful thing to explore but I don't think that it needs an intelligent driving force to guide it. The occasion never arises in a scientific study where you have to insert the god factor to make it all fit. Shit happens and it sorts itself out. Chaos is not necessarily the end result of every natural interaction. There is a self-levelling process that goes on without an intelligent overseer and we understand a great many of the rules that govern that process. If you want to view that natural process as God, fine. I have no problem with that and would consider that as having shown me a god I can see and understand. But I have been described by way of strawman tactics. That is when you set up a deliberately ridiculous caricature for the benefit of those who may be ignorant of the true nature of the opposition's position and then proceed to belittle the opponent with it (see stone5150 2007/10/19 06:58:11 and stone5150 2007/10/20 03:35:15). I know that what was said of me is not true, there are others here who know it is not true but I still take it personally as a false description of my position on the subject.

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/22 15:08:46
I am only posting pictures to lighten up the situation and to make Pino Laugh! I rest my case :) Hugs to all!

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/22 20:09:49
I am done with the argument. If EB wants to rant on about how stupid I am he may feel free to do so, but I will not respond to baseless, mean spirited bullshit. To continue funny atheist pics;

From: Pino Carafa	On: 2007/10/23 01:31:39
You take a short vacation and then THIS happens :-)

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/23 04:35:27


From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/23 04:43:02
"...I am done with the argument..." Interesting that you never really HAD one...

From: Pino Carafa	On: 2007/10/23 04:56:49
LOL

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/23 06:46:56
You are such a pompous fucking ass.

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/23 09:48:31


From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/23 10:27:07


From: Pino Carafa	On: 2007/10/23 12:08:58
ROTFLMAO.....

From: Baldrick	On: 2007/10/24 00:51:56
LOL! You're all RONG, anyway. I once saw the tooth fairy after sniffing gas one night. So all you naysayers can just eff right off.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/10/24 05:25:07
"...As for ghosts, I lived in a old house when I was a young child. On several occasions I saw someone late at night, I called him fuzzy man, because he was kinda fuzzy looking like when you didn't have the TV tuned quite right. He was always rushin into the bathroom that was between my room and my sisters..." There are a number of simultaneous events in your account that could be related to something other than a supernatural entity. Old houses are typically a lot roomier than modern houses and there is a lot more chance for drafts to generate infra-sound which has the known property of creating anxiety and even smoky illusions such as fuzzy man. They can look pretty eery but they never actually do anything. The image created by infra-sound that impresses itself on your eyes is harmless. That is why there are so many ghost sightings but no ghost confrontations. They are not really there. "...One time I went to the bathroom and while washing my hands the water turned all the way on, the shower turned on, and the doors locked..." The aforementioned breeze through an old house CAN cause the architecture to shift slightly which would cause the doors to jam even if they had no latches at all. They would be quite tough to open if the normally rectangular doorway was pushed slightly parallelogram. This coincided with the taps turning on and your feeling of anxiety (for want of a better word). I need a better description of the plumbing but I would suggest the same shift in architecture due to the breeze was responsible for the water turning on as well and created the feeling of anxiety. You didn't actually say that the faucets rotated by themselves, just that the water turned on. Then when the breeze subsided, the doors unjammed, the water turned off and your anxiety passed. It might be strange for these things to happen but certainly a lot less strange than some fuzzy guy locking doors, turning on water and... then what? If a ghost or whatever supernatural entity has the physical ability to lock doors and hold them against adults who have to kick them open and to also turn on water faucets, why not do something physical to the person they are trying to frighten the wits out of? Amazing acts of nature are more believable and common than non-sensical acts of supernature. No, I have no proof but you didn't give me a lot to work with.

From: shekerra	On: 2007/10/25 05:32:17
How to Spot Atheists and Report Them to the FBI

From: stone5150	On: 2007/10/25 06:14:12


From: shekerra	On: 2007/11/03 14:05:18


From: shekerra	On: 2007/11/05 19:23:09
Manifesto 1. God is an illusion. God doesn’t actually exist. Get over it. 2. You don’t need God to write you a moral code. Here’s a moral code: Don’t hurt anyone. 3. Do not make war. Do not subsidize war with your taxes, or your investments. Do not vote for anyone that is likely to use the power you delegate in them to make war. What part of “don’t hurt anyone” don’t you understand? 4. Be compassionate. 5. Life is not complicated. Quantum mechanics is complicated. If anyone tells you life is complicated or mysterious, pay no attention to them; they probably just want something from you. 6. Ignore anyone who asks you for anything — your money, your time, your vote — , except your loved ones, and anyone worse off than you. 7. Before you were conceived, nobody knew about you. After two, three generations at most, you will be completely forgotten. Think about that. Who were your great-grandparents? Anything you do, you do right now, and for its own sake. 8. After you are gone, you are everyman. 9. You are a node. Things, money, energy, flow through you. 10. You have the ability to organize, and to transform. Think about a plant: It takes dirt and sunlight, and transforms them into leaves, and flowers, and seeds.

From: Pino Carafa	On: 2007/11/06 02:02:00
Not bad.

From: elijahbailey	On: 2007/11/06 03:54:42
Pretty dang good...

From: stone5150	On: 2007/11/06 05:02:23
Except for the first 2 lines, that sounds a lot like the code of the Druids, heavily paraphrased of course.

From: Pino Carafa	On: 2007/11/07 07:04:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koi5t1e-9mM

From: shekerra	On: 2007/11/23 10:12:48


From: shekerra	On: 2008/01/31 00:23:45


From: shekerra	On: 2008/04/08 05:37:28
This conversation is now closed.

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