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Originator:	Hooligan	Printable Version
Title:	US Bank Rescue plan

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From: Hooligan	On: 2008/09/25 05:18:23
sounds like a costly one for the US taxpayers, wouldn't surprise me if it ended up costly for the UK (and other) taxpayers. Damned merchant bankers. lol, you've got Gordon (who's he ed.) Brown over there to help you, watch out for the phrase 'financially prudent', followed by his trademark jaw maneuver. I'm a lifelong labour man, pity the man in the street got no rescue plan when we were being kicked in the goolies in the North of England. Even I can't blame Thatcher for this one.

From: stone5150	On: 2008/09/25 05:38:51
It will be costly, Bush, his huggy buddy McCain, Paulson, and a few others want to ram through a $1,000,000,000,000 blank check bail out through by using fear and some cry baby bullshit like delaying presidential debates. It could be that McSame is afraid that he will get his ass handed to him if he debates while the crisis is still ongoing.

From: PaulHews	On: 2008/09/25 06:19:40
The free market got the banks into this mess, and I'm inclined to think it should get them out.

From: stone5150	On: 2008/09/25 06:29:23
In a perfect world it would, but they made big contributions to the people bailing them out now, do you want them to lose that investment too. What do you think they are, regular people?!?!

From: JOK	On: 2008/09/25 08:59:18
i'm sure they know what they're doing.

From: JOK	On: 2008/09/26 01:45:03
$700B USD bail out talks break down: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523/ and JP Morgan "acquires" WaMu: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26893612/ Greedy rich people get richer by making greedy poor people spend money they don't have

From: stone5150	On: 2008/09/26 05:16:38
...and the middle class footing the bill. Woohoo

From: JOK	On: 2008/09/26 13:50:23
no, i can't see the rich getting richer off this disaster... something like that would NEVER happen, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,428641,00.html "That's right, $20 million for 17 days on the job ... and his company failed."

From: mac	On: 2008/09/29 11:17:32
it didn't just fail, Fishman was hired to save it, then after getting the job, decided it couldn't be saved, so he threw in the towel for them.

From: stone5150	On: 2008/09/29 11:33:30
I want a 17 day job for $20,000,000. Oh wait, I have a conscience, I don't qualify for the job.

From: JOK	On: 2008/09/29 12:38:26
Bailout plan sinks: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7641733.stm Careful walking by tall buildings.

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/09/29 14:14:49
Gordod Brown's jaw was clicking with every word when he addressed us on the failure of the bill. He doesn't use the word prudent anymore. --------------------------- these banks in the UK & US needed to be regulated properly, but it's too late now.

From: mac	On: 2008/09/29 20:37:01
no, it's not too late. the result here will be death to the idiots (sort of a "darwin award" for bankers stupid enough to lend to the unemployed), better regulation on banks in general moving forward, and a good old-fashioned "i told you so" for the ones that exercised good fiscal policy and discipline. i'm not happy about the coming storm, but i'll never vote for a congressman who puts me 750 billion dollars MORE in debt, after what this shithead president has done to me so far.

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/09/30 02:38:00
http://www.tele...led-us-beyond-boom-and-bust.html Ron Paul for Vice President (on the MrGoodbar ticket)!

From: stone5150	On: 2008/09/30 03:31:31
Some bankers were scammed, some lenders were scammed and some banks just did stupid shit. It seems all they want to do is help the banks, the scammers and the stupid alike, but not a damn thing for consumers. Well, except for handing us the bill.

From: JOK	On: 2008/09/30 03:42:20
The weak preyed on the weaker.

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/09/30 06:37:01
let me know if you want a bundle of securitized loans guv, these aren't the toxic ones you've read about in the papers, mine are guaranteed quality NINJA loans, two for the price of three, while stocks last like.

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/09/30 08:14:05
http://www.reut...arketsNews/idUSN3043629220080930 The interest rate on federal funds, or supply of surplus reserves that banks lend to each other overnight, opened at 7 percent, well above the current 2 percent target rate set by the Federal Reserve. Either the Fed is holding congress (& the US taxpayer) to ransom over the bail-out, or the banks are so short of funds that a catastrophic banking crisis is imminent in the next few days. Might be worth stocking up on basic supplies in case of shortages. PS. I'm serious.

From: JOK	On: 2008/09/30 08:54:34
they say the big problem (one of them) is the limit of available credit, meaning companies won't be able to borrow on their line of credit to meet things such as payroll.

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/10/06 04:33:48
Are the banks pulling a fast one here? They exist to make money so this could all be a strategy for them to get money out of central governments, they've lost money by bad lending, but the loss is spread over all banks, so they know that they're all in the same boat and likely to get bailed out. Why the huge rush to get this US bill through? Wouldn't it have been worth spending more time drafting more conditions into it, instead of giving into this 'help we need a blank check immediately' mentality?

From: JOK	On: 2008/10/06 05:29:27
The deal is structured that the Fed govt could very likely profit from the mess like it did when it bailed out Chrysler. Not doing so would have caused economic harm at the highest level, yet Iaocca ended up returning a profit to the Feds. Perhaps there is a consipiracy or even a ransom being paid by the Feds this time, but not paying out is very likely to cause more harm to "average" slave^H^H^H^H^Hcitizen. There are enough good people in the govt that the bailout is needed even if some of the bad profit excessively.

From: mac	On: 2008/10/06 11:57:28
welcome to "Black Monday", friends... look around. this is what an abyss looks like.

From: stone5150	On: 2008/10/06 14:54:38
Looks more like a correction in the market to me. Oil is back down to a halfway reasonable level and the dollar is gaining ground against other currencies finally. It will hurt some people, but that is the nature of it.

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/10/07 05:17:22
the UK banks want a hand-out now, probably so they can reward themselves with bonuses for securing a handout.

From: mac	On: 2008/10/07 08:12:53
How to Ruin the U.S. Economy: by Ben Stein http://finance....m/expert/article/yourlife/112984

From: Analog_Kid	On: 2008/10/07 09:22:40
Naomi Klein's "THE SHOCK DOCTRINE"

From: stone5150	On: 2008/10/07 10:21:23
Seriously, I only have a few K in a retirement fund, a 5-0-something-or-another, which is probably only a few hundred now, but other than that how does this crap affect me at all?

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/10/08 03:26:44
I suppose the risk to the man in the street is unemployment or some sort of displacement into a different means of making a living. If economic activity falls due to the bank failures, then there has to be people left kicking their heels or trying to get back into work by working for worse terms, if you're not one of the lucky ones. The UK banks are now being rescued by some sort of tough sounding, but ultimately vague plan. But Brown is at least making a better job of announcing it all, since it's money and therefore what he's good at talking about.

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/10/08 08:24:21
It ain't over until the fat lady sings. Many large banks have massive outstanding short positions in gold. This alone could bankrupt them: [http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f565b702-949a-11dd-953e-000077b07658.html] Central banks all but stop lending bullion By Javier Blas in London Published: October 7 2008 21:44 \| Last updated: October 7 2008 21:44 Central banks have all but stopped lending gold to commercial and investment banks and other participants in the precious metals market, in a move that on Tuesday sent the cost of borrowing bullion for one-month to more than twenty times its usual level. The one-month gold lease rate rocketed to 2.649 per cent, its highest level since May 2001 and significantly above its five-year average of 0.12 per cent, according to data from the London Bullion Market Association. Gold lease rates for two, three and six months and for a year also jumped to levels not seen in the last seven years. Traders said the jump reflects the fact that central banks – mostly European – have almost completely stopped lending gold in the last few days and are not rolling forward old leases after maturity. This is because of fears that some borrowers might not repay their bullion loans if they are engulfed by the financial crisis. “A number of central banks have been cutting back on their gold lending,” said Tom Kendall, a precious metals strategist at Mitsubishi in London. John Reade, a commodities strategist at UBS, added that there had been a lot of talk about some central banks being unwilling to lend their gold because of a redoubled focus on the risk of borrowers not returning it. “There is very little appetite for unsecured lending at the moment,” he said. Central banks usually do not ask borrowers to post any guarantee – or collateral – to secure bullion loans. “The key word now is safety,” an official from a Europe-based central bank said. In normal circumstances, central banks lend gold into the market – providing key liquidity – to earn a small return on what otherwise is a non-yielding asset. Other factors are also pushing lease rates higher, including more investors’ positions no longer available for lending, according to Philipp Klapwijk, chairman of GFMS, the London-based precious metals consultants. Traders said the general dysfunction in money markets, with US dollar rates significantly higher, was contributing to volatile gold lease rates. Demand for physical gold and small and medium-sized bars had been strong, removing supplies from the market that otherwise could have been lent, traders added. The US Mint onTuesday said it had run out of half-ounce and quarter-ounce American Eagle gold coins following “unprecedented” demand. Gold prices on Tuesday rose $19.3 to $880.6 a troy ounce, having hit an intraday high of $890.6 an ounce. Bullion prices hit an all-time high of $1,030.8 in March. In euro terms, gold prices rose on Tuesday to a record high of €654.22 an ounce, above March’s all-time high of €651.24 an ounce. It also hit a record in Australian dollars. Investors are seeking refuge in actual gold coins and bars as fears about the safety of their savings increase. Some have even been selling their positions in gold futures, as this is a less tangible form of the metal. Since the collapse of Lehman Brothers three weeks ago, bullion prices have risen about 20 per cent. Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/10/08 08:25:47
Seriously, I only have a few K in a retirement fund, a 5-0-something-or-another, which is probably only a few hundred now, but other than that how does this crap affect me at all? What happens to any punter who has borrowed so much on credit cards, loan sharks, re-mortgages etc. that their monthly interest bill exceeds their monthly paycheck by a wide margin? They go bankrupt, and the receivers are called in to reposess any assets and flog-em at the nearest car-boot sale. That is the more-or-less the state of our nations' finances. Defaulting in this manner isn't really an option for the world's most powerful economies. Fortunately, our gubmints have access to a technology called the "printing press" so they can print dollar bills or pound notes at will to pay off the nominal value of all outstanding loans. In fact it's even easier now that it merely takes them a couple of seconds to punch some zeroes into a computer. They can do this since the dollar & pound are "fiat" currencies - by definition, created at will (or "by fiat") by our governments and central banks. They have been able to do this since 1971 when Nixon authorised that the dollar be no longer backed by the gold held in Fort Knox, since those pesky French were redeeming loads of 'em at the princely sum of $35 an ounce (now it's ~$900/oz). Ben Bernanke has indicated that he will do anything it takes to avoid a repeat of the deflationary great depression of the 1930's (caused by over-borrowing and a massive stock-market bubble similar to the over-borrowing and property bubble of today). He once quipped that he would authorise the metaphorical "dropping of dollar bills from helicopters" if necessary to accomplish this. Unfortunately our creditors (i.e. China & middle-eastern sovreign wealth funds) won't like getting repaid with a devalued currency and will either stop lending or demand exorbitant interest rates on future loans. Rolling over short-term loans will either get very expensive, or they will be defaulted upon. This leads to a vicious spiral whereby more money has to be created out of thin air. Increasing the money supply like this is very, very inflationary. In the absolute worst-case scenario, it could result in emergency bank "holidays", daily food & energy price rises (Zimbabwe-style), resultant food shortages, resultant panic and civil unrest, martial law and total financial collapse. Probably not a third world war though - despite historical precedent for this occurring in times of hyperinflationary recession (think Weimar Germany), I remain cautiously optimistic on that one. Personally I've stocked up the larder and taken advantage of the recent low prices in gold and silver as an inflation hedge. With a bit of luck, it'll turn out that I've been talking utter bollocks. It'll be a right gas to see how it all pans out... Regards

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/10/10 04:46:54
Baldrick, It's hard to make sense of the situation. It's times like this that I wish MrGoodbar was still amongst us. Anyone seen him?

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/10/10 07:07:58
He faded to black... I agree, we need his wisdom. Many times I have found myself asking "What would MrGoodbar do?", and the best answer I can think of is "have a smoke, nincompoop"!

From: stone5150	On: 2008/10/10 07:15:32
As far as I know DanKH/Goober moved to Thailand or somewhere in that neighborhood and living the good life on $3 USD / day.

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/10/10 09:06:23
oh right, thanks for letting me know that. I seem to recall he often visited the far east, vietnam etc, in fact I think he was part vietnamese.

From: JOK	On: 2008/10/10 12:57:00
don't forget the booze and hookers

From: higginspi	On: 2008/10/10 15:23:43
I miss Mr. Goodbar's stock tips. They would come in handy right now.

From: PaulHews	On: 2008/10/21 08:32:37
This arrived in my inbox this morning: It was autumn, and the Indians asked their New Chief if the winter was going to be cold or mild. Since he was a Indian chief in a modern society, he couldn't tell what the weather was going to be. Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, he replied to his Tribe that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that the members of the village should collect wood to be prepared. But also being a practical leader, after several days he got an idea. He went to the phone booth, called the National Weather Service and asked 'Is the coming winter going to be cold?' 'It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold indeed,' the weather man responded. So the Chief went back to his people and told them to collect even more wood. A week later, he called the National Weather Service again. 'Is it going to be a very cold winter?' 'Yes,' the man at National Weather Service again replied, 'It's definitely going to be a very cold winter.' The Chief again went back to his people and ordered them to collect every scrap of wood they could find. Two weeks later, he called the National Weather Service again. 'Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?' 'Absolutely,' The Man replied. 'It's going to be one of the coldest winters ever.' 'How can you be so sure?' the Chief asked. The weatherman replied, 'The Indians are collecting wood like crazy.' This is how Stock Markets work.

From: JOK	On: 2008/10/21 09:25:37
Thought there was a bit where the wood salespeople told the chief that it was going to be a cold winter.

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/10/22 04:28:33
:) Pure class, PaulHews

From: stone5150	On: 2008/10/22 14:54:38
I like that one that Paul Hews posted so much I spammed people with it. =o)

From: Hooligan	On: 2008/10/27 02:34:40
your a wise man Paul Hewes, got any stock tips??

From: PaulHews	On: 2008/10/27 08:24:32
>got any stock tips?? Yes, choose your parents carefully. I have little clue about investing in the stock market; it seems pretty risky to me. I've got some retirement savings in mutual funds. I figure over the long term it's diversified enough to offer some safety, while being tied into the market to some degree should help it grow faster than a fixed rate investment. On the downside, you're handing the reins over to someone you don't know, and who has no real culpability if they screw up.

From: JOK	On: 2008/10/27 10:36:49
if the stock market made sense, it wouldn't work.

From: Baldrick	On: 2008/11/05 04:25:02
Hahahahah! http://www.dail...bonus-package--6bn-bail-out.html Hope you all like being forced to pay through the nose to replenish the trough.

From: stone5150	On: 2008/11/05 06:08:59
Of course they get bonuses, they successfully fucked up the economy to get a spot at the gubmint trough.

From: mac	On: 2009/02/25 07:44:17
Three contractors are bidding to fix a broken fence at the White House. One is from Chicago , another is from Tennessee , and the third is from Minnesota . All three go with a White House official to examine the fence. The Minnesota contractor takes out a tape measure and does some measuring, then works some figures with a pencil. “Well,” he says, “I figure the job will run about $900: $400 for materials, $400 for my crew and $100 profit for me.” The Tennessee contractor also does some measuring and figuring, then says, “I can do this job for $700: $300 for materials, $300 for my crew and $100 profit for me.” The Chicago contractor doesn’t measure or figure, but leans over to the White House official and whispers, “$2,700.” The official, incredulous, says, “You didn’t even measure like the other guys! How did you come up with such a high figure?” The Chicago contractor whispers back, “$1000 for me, $1000 for you, and we hire the guy from Tennessee to fix the fence.” “Done!” replies the government official. And that, my friends, is how the new stimulus plan will work.

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