Originator: Pino Carafa Printable Version Title: Message for the press Back to YouTube Discussions Attachments Add Attachment History From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/21 07:11:55 I have had enough of YouTube's inaction around VoteBots and flagging campaigns. I have sent the following message to a number of members of the press: Howard Kurtz from the Washington Post Miguel Helft from the New York Times and Ryan Nakashima from Associated Press Please send similar message to these or other members of the press until we get one of them to run with this story. It's time this got ugly. Dear Sir, The reason I am trying to send this to you is that in the past you have written a number of articles about the Video Sharing site YouTube, so I would imagine that you may be quite interested in hearing what is currently going on on YouTube. Personally I have been on YouTube for over two years now, and I have been an enthusiastic video maker myself. But my areas of interest are not mainstream entertainment. I am very interested in science, philosophy and religion. There are several minor communities on YouTube that engage in VLOGging about these subjects. In fact, these communities can easily contain hundreds if not thousands of people who engage heavily with each other on such niche subjects. In the greater scheme of what YouTube is, these communities are small indeed, but from a personal perspective it is extremely gratifying to be able to reach one or two thousand people who are as interested in such subjects as one is oneself. Trust me, it is not easy to find like-minded people in one's immediate vicinity. Several of these communities are currently under attack. These attacks take the form of "flagging campaigns", where videos of people that one does not agree with are subjected to persistent flagging as "inappropriate" by automated processes, and "votebots" that do a similar thing, hitting a video with dozens of 1-star ratings, causing it to fall right of the end of any search results. The communities that are suffering the most under these attacks are the so-called "atheist community", in which I do participate, but also communities of "pagans" and "wiccans" and the likes have been attacked as I have seen several videos by people from those communities complaining about the same things. The problem is that YouTube do not appear to be taking these issues seriously. In the mean time people are being hit very hard. There are people who have been participating on the site for years, and who have made several videos. Videos that were available for months, without any issues being raised about them, they were not flagged, they received high ratings, and so on. Suddenly people are starting to get their accounts "suspended". In the most sinister turn, in recent days, people who have had NO prior warnings, NO previous "strikes" against their accounts, NOTHING, are now finding their accounts permanently suspended, without so much as a warning from YouTube. Normally this would require several steps: a Take Down notice and a first Strike for the first video in which such a thing occurred, a Second Strike and a two-week lockout when it happened again, and only then, after THREE warnings, would an account be suspended. And usually it was pretty clear how the Terms Of Service had been violated too. But in the last week or two I have seen several of my "friends" on YouTube drop off the face of the site without a single warning, and people who, to the best of my knowledge, have never done or said anything on the site that could possibly be interpreted as a real breach of the T.O.S. And in the mean time it is impossible for us to contact YouTube. Any contact information we have appears to be defunct, and e-mails and other correspondence sent to them just appears to disappear into the void. And in the mean time our communities continue to be hit hard by this. We are being attacked, our accounts are being shut down, and there is no form of redress, nowhere where we can appeal the decision, nothing. It is not surprising that many of us have jumped to the conclusion that YouTube are actively participating in getting niche communities removed from the site, for fear of their causing "offense" to the mainstream users, most of whom are blissfully unaware of our existence and who will never come across any of our material anyway. This is why I am contacting you. If you are interested in what is going on, please contact me and I will be more than happy to direct you toward the many videos that are currently being uploaded about topics such as "votebots", "flagging campaigns", and other attempts to stifle freedom of expression on the site, and to several people who have been affected by this problem. YouTube, in the mean time, keeps claiming quite happily (see its community guidelines) that it "supports" freedom of speech will "defend" anybody's right to express unpopular opinions. Not at the moment it isn't. Please contact me, because with YouTube refusing to engage with us through its "official" channels, and with nowhere else to go, I can only see one way forward and that is to bring this to public awareness through having it brought to the attention of the press. Thank you for reading this, and I hope to hear from you soon. Regards Pino Carafa YouTube user: rozeboosje From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/21 08:24:38 Please do. This is much bigger than it looks. It has already affected hundreds of people simply by having their content devalued, but now it is starting to cause people to lose their accounts. From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/21 11:33:18 I just got a response from Miguel Helft. The ball is rolling. From:  TheSciencePundit On: 2009/04/21 12:11:06 If you know where they're getting the votebot scripts, that would probably help the reporter.  I've seen it mentioned before in videos, but I've always refused to follow the link out of principle. Another thing we could do in the meantime is go through our old videos and identify ones could be viewed by some as being TOS violators.  Even if you think it's fair, we know that YT either doesn't have the time or doesn't care to investigate all these.  I think that until things calm down, it might be prudent to set to private any potential "offending" videos. This is important because these scriptbots can dig up and flag old videos that everyone's forgotten about. The good news is that some people are getting their accounts back.  For example, Gary had his inmendham account restored after it was "permanently banned".  So while YT is broken, it's not completely broken.  (Of course the fact that it's also broke might help explain why it's broken.) From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/21 14:28:42 I've never heard anything about votebot scripts. If you can point me to where the links are, that would be great. I'm sure Miguel would be interested in that alright. From: SuperFlyNB On: 2009/04/21 20:19:15 One of the programs is called Tube Automator from http://www.tubeautomator.com/ This program is specifically designed to create YouTube accounts, rate videos (1 to 5 stars), leave comments etc… From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/22 04:03:49 Hello Miguel, Here is some information that will help you on your way, even if you and I don't get to talk. Most people I know from YouTube I would only know through their user ID. I wouldn't have any other contact details for them. If you have not already done so, the best thing would be for you to create a User Account for YouTube, after which you can contact each of these people simply by clicking on the links below and using the "send message" links to send them what on YouTube is known as a "Private Message". If you tell them who you are and that you got their usernames through me (most people know me by my YouTube name "rozeboosje" or my first name Pino) I am quite sure that most will be more than happy to talk to you about their recent experiences. There are a number of users who have made it their remit to keep track of everybody who has fallen victim of these attacks. http://www.youtube.com/user/ediblenapalm http://www.youtube.com/user/eimajuno who also gave me his e-mail address XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX They have compiled a list of victims that, the last time I looked, numbered 200. The following user has created a group to help people deal with cyber bullying and harassment. http://www.youtube.com/user/tsumetashi22 I am not sure whether anybody in the Pagan community is keeping a similar tally, but I think the following user may be able to help: http://www.youtube.com/user/PaganRon From the Wiccan community http://www.youtube.com/user/princessannikki Some people with past experiences of having their accounts suspended: http://www.youtube.com/user/thunderf00t http://www.youtube.com/user/inmendham I actually know this user's name and phone number. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Some well known YouTubers (within our community) who currently cannot access their accounts cozmikzen - his account has been suspended and he can currently be accessed through a backup account he created http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAist dprjones - his account has been suspended and he can currently be accessed through a backup account he created http://www.youbute.com/user/dprjoneslives I sent Private Messages to the above users asking them whether they would be willing to discuss YouTube's recent events with you. I am still waiting to hear from thunderf00t and dprjoneslives, but the other users I mentioned have replied and stated that they would be very happy to discuss their recent experiences with you. The people who are attacking our communities are using automated processes to do so, for example the software sold here: http://www.tubeautomator.com and variations thereof. Votebot attacks and false flagging campaigns would leave clearly distinguishable statistical signatures. The thunderf00t user has explained some of this in his recent videos. A votebot attack, for example, leaves a characteristic spike in your video's rating history. Regardless of the claims made by the makers of the "bot" software, each account used by the votebots needs to be registered through YouTube and confirmed by e-mail before it can be used to comment, rate or flag. YouTube could certainly implement a few simple measures to make life harder for these people: implement delays in the e-mail confirmation (15 minutes would be enough to hugely frustrate someone trying to "quickly" register 100 accounts), not allow more than a couple of acccounts to be registered from the same IP address on the same day (a genuine user would not mind too much having to wait a day to register his or her third account), and certainly no more than one account from the same e-mail address per week. They can do a statistical analysis of voting patterns, and check out accounts that are consistently present in the votebot spikes, and close those accounts. They can reverse the effect of a votebot "spike" by simply discounting the ratings given on that day, The same goes for flagging campaigns. And if a votebot attack has been identified, it shouldn't be too hard to find "genuine" accounts that always log in from the same IP address as the bots on the day that those bots are used. That, then, can be used to identify the real culprits behind the "bot" attacks. And that is just the technical side of things. At the community level the biggest frustration is that when something like this happens, any communication with YouTube about such a problem just disappears into a black hole. They never communicate back to anyone. I have seen several bitter videos by people who had to fight back against such an attack, but simply not knowing who to turn to. In the last day or two, there have been a number of strange incidents. A few users, for example: 666norton420, adamatheatheist,  abassimadani and musicgeniusno1 found that their accounts had been "permanently suspended" which means that the account is no longer accessible to anybody, and all videos appear to be removed from YouTube. A day later their accounts were reinstated. They never received any communication from YouTube. When their accounts were suspended, they got no explanation whatsoever as to why this decision was made (or whether a human being was even involved in making such a decision). When their accounts were reinstated, they got not explanation whatsoever as to why the decision was reversed. YouTube do not appear to appreciate or care about what sort of an impact the sudden loss of an account into which people may have put years worth of effort will have on people, and how frustrating it must be for people, when confronted with something like this happening to their account, to not be able to appeal any decisions with anyone, and to not receive any communication from anyone as to why the decision was made. This is what has our communities up in arms over this. What is the significance of what happened to those four people in the last two days? Nobody knows. Maybe it's a tecnical glitch and software engineers are scrambling to manually undo the damage that the software is inflicting on the users? Or maybe they have started to undo the damage done by vote- and flagging bots? Or maybe there is a rogue employee suspending accounts on a whim and others are reversing the damage caused by said individual? Or maybe ALL of what has been happening recently is the result of automated processes with no human interaction involved, and nobody who actually gives a [bleep]. We certainly don't need the full details and if YouTube are working on resolving the issue we certainly would spare them the embarrassment of spelling out exactly what bugs in their system are causing all this, but some communication indicating that our complaints have been heard and that they are being taken seriously and that people are working on getting them resolved would go a long way toward restoring the trust we have lost with this site. In the mean time there still are users such as cozmikzen (now TheAist) whose accounts remain suspended, and nobody knows why, and nobody knows how that decision can be appealed. It simply will not do for a site that claims in its Community Guidelines that it supports and defends freedom of speech to leave the reasons for termination of a person's account undisclosed. I hope this will give you something to sink your teeth into. Regards Pino From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/24 05:57:18 More information: (with thanks to cozmikzen and tsumetashi22) April 24, 2009 - Friday You tube CEO is Chad Hurley . You tube Headquarters is 71 East 3rd Ave San Mateo CA 94403 Fax 650-343-2960, Office phone 650-343-2983 San Mateo is 20 miles south of San Francisco. San Mateo issues you tube their business license TO: City Clerk Attn Business Compliant Dept. San Mateo, CA 94403 City Manager 650-522-7000 www.City of San Mateo.org , look for Chamber of Commerce, Better Business Bureau too. Tell the FTC, FBI and the FCC Flood them with e-mail, faxes and phone complaints (This isn't part of that PM, but I don't think the FBI will care.  I would recommend avoiding contacting them about this.) _________________ Addendum: 3:34 am EST, 4/24/09 This is not part of the PM I received,  but a little more information that might come in handy. Better Business Bureau (USA): http://www.bbb.org/us/ Better Business Bureau (Canada): http://www.bbb.org/canada/ FCC Federal Communication Commission http://www.fcc.gov/contacts.html I copied this from the description of Cozmikzen's video that I mirrored. ACLU American Civil Liberties Union http:www.aclu.org my state aclu rep, please email here in support of cozmikzen aclutn@aclu-tn.org Please call here, as the number of complaints is relative to their pursuance of these matters. And the Folder is already created, EACH one of YOUR participation will help. Votebots, false suspensions, false flagging on YouTube. Federal Trade Commission: www.ftc.gov 1-877-382-4357 its free The FTC has advised me to register a complaint with the FCC. FCC asks that I attempt to resolve this matter with the party involved (YouTube) before registering a Formal Complaint. Contact details for youtubes advertise channel http://www.youtube.com/user/advertise Suzie Reider (Head of Sales and Marketing Youtube) Suzie Reider PM YT here, this is their user name: advertise also, complain to this guy: editor@youtube.com From:  Pino Carafa On: 2009/04/28 03:14:29 (Alcoa, TN April 27, 2009)      YouTube, the 3rd most popular website on the internet and largest video sharing site in the world, is censoring its users. Tho it is a private business, YouTube is used by politicians for its direct access to the populations in all countries. In YT's terms of service, it proclaims itself as an advocate of free speech and a protector of unpopular opinions and the rights of those who speak them.  However, through blatant acts of negligence it has let religious zealots false flag videos to close down accounts. In an effort to lure corporate sponsorship of companies such as Disney, and to compete with HULU.com it has sat back and let extremist fundamentalists, not only promote hate speech, but shut down numerous accounts that promote science, philosophy, current events, humor and education.      The offenders use tactics such as false flagging, which are to make YT aware of sexual or violent content, and use the flagging  feature to silence any video maker they disagree with. They, also, use computer programs called VoteBots to manipulate video ratings and push them lower in the search engines.  YT has neglected to review these events, and furthermore have by avocation allowed many video makers to be suspended and their accounts permanently banned.      Video makers and viewers alike have made thousands of complaints to, not only YT itself and its CEO, Chad Hurley, but to the ACLU, the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Communications Commission.      One video maker is quoted saying," The government gives YouTube and all sites an indirect subsidy. Unlike newspapers and books, Congress has given all bulletin boards immunity from libel suits from postings by third parties. They did this to promote the development of the internet. It is clear that Congress intended the internet to be a place where free speech could flourish."      Another video maker says," The problem is that YouTube do not appear to be taking these issues seriously. In the mean time people are being hit very hard. There are people who have been participating on the site for years, and who have made several videos. Videos that were available for months, without any issues being raised about them, they were not flagged, they received high ratings, and so on. Suddenly people are starting to get their accounts "suspended". In the most sinister turn, in recent days, people who have had NO prior warnings, NO previous "strikes" against their accounts, NOTHING, are now finding their accounts permanently suspended, without so much as a warning from YouTube....And in the mean time it is impossible for us to contact YouTube. Any contact information we have appears to be defunct, and e-mails and other correspondence sent to them just appears to disappear into the void. And in the mean time our communities continue to be hit hard by this." From: Vogter2100 On: 2009/05/21 06:11:35 I have written an open letter to Youtube that is also sent to Washington Post and New York Times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBu8jS4jbek support@youtube.com, michael.clancy@wpost.com, robert.lutsky@wpost.com, mark.crafts@wpost.com, executive-editor@nytimes.com, managing-editor@nytimes.com, news-tips@nytimes.com Dear Youtube This is an open letter I am also sending to Washington Post and New York times. Regarding the last permanent suspension of a youtube user, dprjones, due to false flagging from christian fundamentalists. I think dprjones suspensions as well as cozmikzen's are toaly unfair. None of those have ever made videos that was aginst the TOS on youtube. They were falsely flagged by christian fundamentalists that are in abundance on Youtube for not shutting up and for not stopping to expose the fundies videos and views on science. This is very much against Youtube's own claim about protecting the free speech and against Youtube own claim of not having to fear flagging as all videos that are flagged are reviewed by Youtube before they are taken down. This is clearly not the case! I think I need to get a reporter's attention on this, prefearbly one from a big newspaper like New York Times and Washington Post. This can not go on like this with Youtube simoply not caring one iota about their users and just jumping for the christian fundamentalists that fight against reason, rationality and free speech. And more than these two were hit by false flagging, coughlan666 sakefagan and many more, but they are not suspendes permanently, yet. What is more, you must be aware of all this. False DMCA claims against athiests like Thundrf00t who fought it and won against VenomfangX can not have escaped your attention. Over 200.000 has seen the appolofy video VenomfangX was forced to make by thunderf00t, in return thunderf00t promised not to press charges and sue VenomfangX for all his worth. There is a fight going on at Youtube, a fight for free speech, rationality and reason. ' The weapons of the athists is rationality, reason, scientific facts and ridicule of creationst ideas that are not funded in facts and science, but only in belief. The fundamentalists weapons: votebots to downrate videos made by athists and freethignker and several of their innocent 'friends' on Youtube, collateral damage, filing false DMCA claims, and latest false flaggin videos for inappropiate contents. Wake up Youtube there is a fight going on